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All Deviations
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On Respect and Hypocrisy

Journal Entry: Sat Nov 26, 2005, 9:43 PM
On Respect and Hypocrisy
An analysis and commentary on various definitions that apply to the “Fan versus Anti-Fan War” on Danny Phantom


There has been a lot of talk about respect lately. Filth artists want respect for their “right” to draw filth. True fans want anti-fans to respect Butch. Butch wants his characters treated with respect in fanworks. Everyone who has not received what they perceive is their due respect has screamed bloody murder. So, who is right? Is anybody?

The American Heritage Dictionary defines “respect” as a noun: deferential or high regard, esteem; and as a verb: to have esteem for, or to avoid violation of.

It is pretty obvious at this point that people who continue to draw pornographic or slash “art” are not respecting Butch’s requests, and are, in fact, in violation of them. This leads pretty clearly to simply not respecting Butch -- not as a person making an honest request for something he feels directly affects him, not as the producer and owner of the material you are plagiarizing, not as the fellow artist that he is.

Now, a common argument I keep hearing after this disrespect is established is, “Well, I’m still a fan of the show even if I don’t respect Butch.” Okay, let’s entertain that.

The show is written for a demographic of children 2 to 11 years old. It is aired on the number one Kid’s Network on cable TV. It is rated TV-Y7. If it were a movie, it would be rated G. Now then, how many of you feel that taking G-rated characters and drawing them naked is respectful of the show? Yes? No? How about drawing said (heterosexual) characters in gay relationships? Being raped by “fangirls”? Engaged in various sexually-pleasuring activities?

Maybe I am missing something here, but I fail to see how this type of “art” is respectful of either Butch or his wishes as stated above, or of the show itself. You cannot “respect” something if you take joy in willfully twisting and perverting it into something it was never meant to be. “Respect”: to esteem and avoid violation of. Read that a few more times if you are having trouble grasping this concept.

And for what noble benefit or purpose do you people do this anyway? To celebrate a love for the show, or to satisfy some personally entertaining sexual fetish? Maybe you do it out of some sort of sick desire to shock and disgust other fans? Whatever sort of “reason” you could define, it all boils down to one, really: to satisfy your own selfish pleasure, again without any respect or consideration for the show or its creator.


Let’s move on. If you people don’t respect Butch, and you don’t respect the show, do you still try to call yourself a fan of either? Before we get to defining “fan,” let’s take a look at another, more applicable, word.

The American Heritage Dictionary defines “hypocrisy” as a noun: the professing of virtues and beliefs that one does not possess.

I have seen again and again that many of you filth artists cry foul on people who are calling you out for drawing your self-satisfying garbage on Butch’s stuff. I have seen some of you say things like “I had hoped people would be respectful of my rights and my feelings.” Oh really? Well, what about Butch’s rights and feelings? Do you seriously believe that you or your plagiarized “art” should be “respected” when you cannot and will not devote the same to Butch, who, lest you forget, OWNS the stuff you are playing around with?

Many of you have also said things like “You should respect me, for I respect everybody.” Ahem. Everybody except the true fans who find your work insulting. Or Butch who has stated publicly that he disapproves of it. Oh and we have already established the fact that you don’t respect the show. I would venture that you really don’t really give a crap about any parents or young kids that might find and be offended by your stuff, either. I doubt Nickelodeon or Viacom would appreciate your “work” either, which is also something I have a hard time picturing you caring about. Have I left anyone out?

“Respecting everybody” indeed. You are trying to demand what you are unwilling to give or show yourselves, even while claiming that you do. Truly magnificent hypocrisy.


What sort of relationship do you have with Butch Hartman and Danny Phantom, exactly? To be honest, I am not really sure. You do “follow” the show, I guess. Perhaps you find it “entertaining” or maybe even “like” it. But, you are not a fan of it in any sense of the word. You certainly do not uphold its image in a positive, dignified, or respectful way. In fact, you go out of your way to make it (and Butch, and the fanbase, and even yourselves) look bad. Hence, we arrive at the term “anti-fan.”

The American Heritage Dictionary defines the prefix “anti-” as: 1. Opposite. 2. Against or opposing. 3. Counteracting

“Fan” is defined in its second meaning, (informal,) as a noun: An ardent admirer.

Pretty much self-explanatory there. If you lack respect for a show and its creator, you can hardly be said to be an admirer of either. Again, maybe you “like” the show or something, but you like disrespecting it more. That is not a fan. That is the opposite of one: an anti-fan.


Bottom line here is, following any sort of formal definitions, you filth artists are not fans of Butch, Danny, or the show, and you never have been. You have no respect for any of these, although you pout and fume and insist that you do. By insulting and defacing what you claim to love and respect, you expose yourselves as the flaming hypocrites that you are.

And here is a final thought for all of you in this respect and hypocrisy issue. Would you be willing to stand before Butch in person, knowing his feelings on all of this, and show him your work? Do you think he would respect you for drawing it? Do you think he would consider you a fan of his or of Danny Phantom after that? And, most importantly, would you care?

Think about it.

Devious Comments

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*Lysa:iconLysa: Nov 26, 2005, 11:22:47 PM
You've got some good points, but there are people who disagree with you have some good points as well. I'm not on either side. Here's how I see it: Everyone is right AND no one is right.

No matter what you do, you cannot change everyones opinions - in fact, I doubt you'll end up changing the opinions of anyone who reads this, just like people who have written journals from the other point of view won't change your opinion. Most people are unwilling to look at what other people are really saying, they'll always think they're right.

I personally do not support slash, porn, etc, BUT I understand why people want to draw those things, it's the same reason people draw fanart: They have the desire to, for whatever reason. You can't change that no matter how hard you try, if I were you I'd just ignore it. You'll just end up making a lot of enemies. I understand where you're coming from here, though. You just need to realize that everything you're saying in this journal and to other people isn't doing any good. It's just causing arguing, hurt, and suffering. This isn't going to stop until everyone just accepts each other...

...although that'll never happen 'til hell freezes over twice.

I have a feeling that you'll still continue to keep fighting against everything "disrespectful" to Butch, 'cause.. well.. like I said earlier, most people are unwilling to see the other side of things, they'll always think they are right.

You can never truely understand something unless you have experienced it yourself.

--
:boing:
~Kitty006:iconKitty006: Nov 27, 2005, 10:18:29 AM
Thanks for the comment, Lysa. I get the feeling that you are sort of on the fence here, if I am reading right, and I appreciate your coming over to my journal to discuss it.

The point of this journal is not to make people stop doing what they like to do. It is to try to make them see just exactly what it is they are doing and what the repercussions of that are. If these “artists” can still live with themselves after that, that is fine -- keep on drawing until “Hell freezes twice.”

People just “doing it because they like it” is not an excuse or an explanation, and drawing it is not even really the point here. Addressing the results of, and accepting the responsibility for, their actions are the issues at hand. You want to disgrace yourself, Danny, Butch, and his shows? Fine. If that is what is more important to you, I have no problem with that. Admit you are not a fan, accept that you prefer to harm the series over honoring it and its creator, and we’ll call it a day.

If people want to get all mad and pouty about the default labels, though, then maybe they need to rethink what they are doing and why.

I could give a rat’s patoot if I make enemies on here. Trying to get people to shut up about this (as I sort of gathered you implied to me) is as bad as trying to force people to stop doing it! We all have a right to say what we feel, and to explain and defend our positions if we want to. Even you, and yes, even me. ;)

And as for forcibly “converting” or “changing” people, truly, that is not my goal. The truth is that I wish only to open a door, not shove people through it. You are right in that people can only change if they want to themselves. No one has a right to force them to. But living in ignorance is something that can be remedied to allow for better choices and to permit more options to materialize.

And yes, I agree that it is difficult to see things from others’ points of view sometimes, especially when they have not lived it themselves. I do not pretend to understand why people seem to enjoy doing this so much, although I have a guess that the encouragement from other “fans” is a big part of it. Getting your ego stroked, even for doing something negative, is a very powerful drug from what I have seen on here. It is also instant gratification, whereas following Butch’s rules comes with it own, more subtle and subdued rewards.

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me, though, why it is more important for these “artists” to draw - and more importantly publicly post - “art” that is demeaning toward someone and something they claim to honor and respect. No, I do not get that at all.

I do appreciate your desire to want to keep the peace, but the time for that has past. No, you are not me. To me, this is important enough to put my own discomfort aside, dredge up this mess, and address it. Butch and this show deserve better than complacent fans. I feel he and Danny are worth defending amid the fanbase. If you don’t think they are, that’s fine. I will not hold it against you for standing down. It is not fun to dig up and expose a dirty subject, I agree.

But, from my interpretation of his announcements, Butch has drawn a line in the sand, and it is time for people to buck and decide which side of that line they are on. This issue is not going to just “go away” now, no matter how much you might want it to.

Change is always hard. It is much easier to just close your eyes to that which is unpleasant or personally uncomfortable to talk about, deal with, or (gasp) alter in our lives. But this is too important to me and others to sit quietly about and ignore any more.

How will this end? I have no idea. I am not out to change the world. Just shed a little light on a subject that many people seem to be in the dark about – either unknowing, unable, or, perhaps, simply unwilling to see.

--
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Proud member of DPTruth: [link]
*Lysa:iconLysa: Nov 27, 2005, 12:25:35 PM
Since I'm bad at writing long comments (that one I wrote earlier took half an hour. x.X; ) here's a quick thing, I'll probably just leave everything at this and stay out of it from now on because I REALLY don't want to make any enemies. Please don't take anything offensively. =)

I know that Butch doesn't want people to draw slash involving *his* characters, but it happens and it's not going to stop. It's not your problem, not your job to enforce his rules, and not your battle to fight. Go ahead, express yourself, say your opinion, but if someone obviously isn't going to change or see your opinion, you might as well leave them alone and try not to cause any pointless, hurtful arguments. You could always just discuss it in a note, I think that'd be better.

I'd just hate to see things get out of hand again like on [link]

--
:boing:
*tracypaper12:icontracypaper12: Nov 27, 2005, 3:01:48 PM
Firstly, is this a pick and choose of respect? You seriously seem to lack the common decency to call people non-derogatory names. I don't see any "anti-fans" calling you a "flaming moron". Yet you can't even refer to the people opposing your opinion in a polite manner. See, I respect your opinion. I respect your right to do this, and would not call you anything derogatory. I respect Butch Hartman (I can hold someone in high regard without agreeing with them), I respect all the fanbase. But you seem to think petty insults help your case? For shame.

Butch wanted slash OFF HIS FORUM. He didn't want you to start the holy crusades. I think you're confused between the idea of respecting a person, and respecting their wishes. It's not the same thing.

I'm not gonna argue with you anyway, because you're not gonna listen. Saying stuff _at_ people is pointless. But there can never be a right or wrong as far as opinion is concerned anyway.

--
Space dementia in your eyes and
Peace will arise and tear us apart
And make us meaningless again.
~MiriahoftheWind:iconMiriahoftheWind: Nov 27, 2005, 7:12:24 PM
I'm pretty sure that you're not going to respond to this but if we're so insignificant in your eyes, if we're nothing but pigs or filth why do you care that we call ourselves "fans"? Why do you keep bugging us about it? Why can't you just "sever ties with us" and "call it a day". You guys don't like slash and keep protesting it and we "anti-fans" know it. We're going to keep drawing/typing slash to our hearts content and you know it. So why bother?
~MiriahoftheWind:iconMiriahoftheWind: Nov 27, 2005, 7:31:28 PM
Oh, and just to say. Yes, I could walk up to him, knowing his opinion and feelings on this, and shown him what I produced. If he wants to see it's already on my DA journal. I don't want to be a jerk about it and I know that I lose my temper often but I believe in standing behind my efforts even if others consider them "filth".
~DaniePhantom:iconDaniePhantom: Nov 28, 2005, 10:46:51 AM
"It is also instant gratification, whereas following Butch’s rules comes with it own, more subtle and subdued rewards."- Kitty006

What kinds of rewards? Will Elmer Hartman (AKA Butch Hartman), walk up to you on the street and thank you for what you are doing? Will he offer you the seat beside him during meetings?

"I know that Butch doesn't want people to draw slash involving *his* characters, but it happens and it's not going to stop. It's not your problem, not your job to enforce his rules, and not your battle to fight."- Lysa

Thank you, Lysa.
~Kitty006:iconKitty006: Nov 29, 2005, 9:55:11 AM
Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and, like I said, if you are the sort of "fan" who feels this is not a "battle" worth fighting, I will not hold it against you.

I can see that you are frightened. I can see that you fear more for losing those whom you want to perceive as "friends" over doing what Butch feels is best for his show. That is fine. It is not my place to judge. But there will come a time when everybody has to choose sides here, as Butch as made this very black and white. You will have to ask yourself what is more important to you: maintaining ties with people who disgrace Butch and the show, or standing up for what is right in the eyes of the creator.

As I mentioned earlier, Butch and Danny deserve better than complacent fans. Yes, this may not be my personal fight, but, as a member of this fanbase, everything that affects it, or that is done or drawn on it, does affect me. It affects you, too. Ignoring this garbage is not going to help Butch, Danny, the show, or the fans. It is only going to let a silent cancer continue to grow.

Please do not try to tell me what to do, either. I appreciate your concern for my well-being, but, there are more important things at stake here than my (or any of our) personal comfort levels. Just because you think this is an unimportant issue does not mean that everyone does. I for one am willing to stand up for what Butch has requested of all fans. Are you?

--
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Proud member of DPTruth: [link]
~Kitty006:iconKitty006: Nov 29, 2005, 10:05:49 AM
Doing the right thing for someone that you (at least pretend to) respect should be enough for you. Or are the classless praises of Internet perverts more important to you than doing what the creator and owner has asked?

Or do you really just not give a crap whatsoever? Why not just admit it that you don't care squat about the image of the show, Butch, or the fanbase, if that is the case, and we will call it a day.

Revisit the definition of "hypocrisy" if I have gone over your head with any of this.

--
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Proud member of DPTruth: [link]
~Kitty006:iconKitty006: Nov 29, 2005, 11:09:34 AM
“Decency”? HAHAHA! You really have the impudence to come to my journal and try to use that word here? Wow. Your fingers must be burning like Hell to have even typed that.

And what “derogatory names” are your referring to? The truthful labels such as “no-class pervert”? How about “disrespectful hypocrite”? “Filth artist,” maybe? These are only “derogatory” to you because you so desperately want not to hear them; they hit too close to home for you.

Oh, and since you obviously have no idea what your “brethren” have posted in the past, I assure you that the language they have used toward me and others has been extremely colorful. I find it amusing, actually. It is entertaining to see how some of these “ people” have to resort to foul language and hissy fits to try to make an argument. I guess all other methods of debate are lost to them for lack of actually having a substantive case.

Yes, Butch wanted slash off his forum. But, if you would bother to read his announcement a little more carefully, you would see that he said “anywhere on the Internet.” This means that Butch is not happy about this filth anywhere, not just on his forum. That stuff was never even on his forum that I saw. He banned people who did it elsewhere on principle, which is totally within his right. Why should he want people that disgrace him and his characters on his forum anyway? I don’t blame him in the least.

Concerning that, I am not on a “holy crusade” – I will leave that to the LJ people who have their “First Church of DP” – but, I will try to spread the word a little, as it seems that a lot of people are in the dark about this. Everyone should be allowed a fully-informed choice about whether it is more important to respect Butch as the creator and fellow artist he is, or to continue to wallow in petty, self-satisfying filth. Educated decisions cannot be made in ignorance.

Are you afraid of me and others getting that message out? Afraid that some of your followers might “defect” to the side of Butch after learning how he feels? There is a lot of fear here, I see. Do not be afraid. Butch is a religious man, IMO, as he signs all his posts “God Bless.” I am sure he would probably forgive you if you decided to start respecting him through your artwork. It is never too late to change.

But as for “opinions,” sorry, dear, but Butch’s is the only one that matters, as this is HIS stuff. No one is telling you to stop drawing porn or slash. Just leave his stuff out of it. If you understood or had any respect for yourself or others, this would not be such a foreign idea to you.

And no, respect is not something you can “selectively” pick and choose. You either respect a person and their stuff or you don’t. Trying to draw up these “loopholes” or whatever it is you are trying to “justify” only furthers your own hypocrisy.

And you are not going to “argue”? When have you ever? I have yet to hear even one coherent “argument” from any of you “ people.” All I have heard is this whiney bullcrap about “my rights” and “my freedoms” which I addressed in my journal above as being the utter nonsense that these “outcries” are.

And why is that, btw – this remarkable lack of coherent arguments from the “other” side? You all like to jump into my and others’ journals, so I take it that you want to express your views, yet all I see is this pouty posturing. Are your “reasons” and “defenses” or other excuses so weak that you are afraid to voice them? Are you so terrified of actually having to admit that you are no fan of Butch or Danny? If so, you need to reexamine your motives and actions. Again, it is never too late to turn over a new leaf. It is not a shame to be ignorant. It is a shame to stay that way.

If I am such a “flaming moron,” come on and prove it to me: Prove to me, yourself, and everyone else here why drawing filth on a G-rated show, in direct opposition to what the creator has asked regarding his copyrighted stuff, is more vital and important than respecting his wishes as the owner and fellow artist that he is.

I am listening.

--
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Proud member of DPTruth: [link]